In the series debut of Dinner Conversations, hosts Mark Lowry and Andrew Greer invite Christian comedians Chonda Pierce and Ken Davis to join the table talk as the bestselling side-splitters share about their path into comedy, and how funny can help fuel hope in the midst of great grief.


TRANSCRIPT FROM THE SHOW

Mark: Hi, I’m Mark Lowry

Andrew: And I’m Andrew Greer

Mark: And you’re listening to Dinner Conversations

Andrew: Turning the light on one question at a time

Mark: Presented by Project Beautiful

Andrew: Today’s conversation is about comedy and grief. A journalist Anne Roiphe said this about grief: “Grief is in two parts. The first is loss. The second is in the remaking of life.” And I think a lot of people think about grief as some kind of clinical disorder, like depression, but I think of it as a very hopeful, healing agent along the pathway.

Mark: Oh yeah. When you suffer great loss like that, you have to grieve. But I think a third part would be to learn to laugh again because the Bible says, “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine. It is salve to the soul.” And we’ve got two medicine makers here today. Medicine warriors, I don’t know. Anyway, they’re going to be here. Chonda Pierce and Ken Davis. Two of the funniest people you’ll ever meet, and two people who’ve walked through great grief and sorrow in their lives. Let’s join the conversation.


Ken: By the way, I was in on another podcast you were doing. How old are you, Mike?

Chonda: Mike? Mark

Mark: I’m 58, Fred.

Ken: OK, you’re 58-years-old. In another podcast you were doing over here, you said, “Wow, people have 70 years.” And I’m standing here, I just celebrated my 70th birthday. I was behind the cameras, and then you go, “Well, I’ve got 40 left.” Well, now I’ve got nothing left.

Mark: You are on borrowed time. What does the Bible say, three score and ten? That’s 70, isn’t it?

Chonda: Oh, please.

Mark: Anything after that’s a bonus.

Chonda: People died at 900 years of age in the Bible.

Andrew: I want to take us back to something about artists’ growth because all three of you guys, comedy was not necessarily the initial trajectory of your careers. I want to know where the love affair with comedy began because you’re talking about growing with your audience, and maybe you didn’t always expect that you would be known for making light of life for a living.

Chonda: I know where yours came from.

Mark: This is about you for once.

Chonda: Oh, thank you. Did you record that? Mark Lowry said something was about me.

Mark: Let me see if I know yours.

Chonda. OK. What’s mine?

Mark: That you were doing Minnie Pearl. But that is comedy, so your trajectory did start with comedy, right?

Chonda: It did, it did. But then, whatever your theology is, then I got saved again, and so I wanted to tell my testimony, and I just happened to have some funny stories from childhood, just like you did. Like you were doing comedy to eat up time between the man changing the tracks as you were you singing. I wanted to do something funny upfront because I didn’t want to dive right into the sadness of my life story, like, “Hey, thank you for coming to church today. Everybody in my family’s dead.” That would be a terrible way to start a concert.

Mark: That’s a funny opener.

Chonda: Little did I know, there’s still deaths to come. So I wanted to be able to cushion the blow, so to speak, of some of my story, and I started with the funny.

Mark: Second row piano side.

Ken: Oh, I remember that.

Mark: Oh, I can still remember.

Chonda: Oh gosh. My first attempt into Christian comedy was this man invited me on tour. The graciousness of Mark — not just because this is your show — but I know now after doing this for 25 years, there’s a way you do things as a headlining artist. Mark’s never been that way. From the very first time I ever went out on the road with him, he said, “We’ll all do funny. I’ll do this much time. You’ll do this much time. So-and-so, you’ll do this much time. And then Chonda, you have this great testimony right now. You end the show with telling that testimony, and then we’ll sing a little song together.” And I was like, This is the Mark Lowry. And I don’t know even know how to sing.

Ken: Wait, what did you just say?

Chonda: I just said I didn’t even know he knew I could sing or anything. But it was very gracious.

Mark: I look at everything as if it’s a journey. I sold 10,000 tickets one night in Notre Dame. Well, that was a long time ago. Never done it before, never done it since. It’s been up and down and down and over, but I love the journey. It’s never been about the arrival with me. I don’t care about the arrival. I want to enjoy the moment.

Ken: Well, you know where the arrival is.

Chonda: Heaven, I know.

Mark: Yeah, but don’t miss the trip.

Ken: No, no, no, I agree.

Chonda: Oh, true.

Mark: The longing for Heaven. My mom used to say, “I just want the Lord to come back.” Well, no. We’re supposed to be salt and light and live and kick up our heels and enjoy the moment of everyday if we can, and the one’s that are horrible pay attention because God’s teaching us stuff. This is boot camp. This is where we get to learn to walk by faith.

Chonda: When we walked in to record this today, you had just finished up recording something with Anita Renfroe. People are always going, “Oh, there’s Anita. She’s just clipping at your heels.” And I go, “Are you kidding me? Every time I get a chance to hear her or see her, I celebrate that she is so talented and so good.”

Mark: Exactly. That’s what we learned to do with Gaither, man. I’d learn from Bill Gaither.

Chonda: Sitting listening to all those people, that’s exactly right.


Mark: We’re listening in to funny lady Anita Renfroe, singing about every Southerner’s affection: sweet iced tea.

Anita: OK, y’all. I am from the South, and in the South, we value this item above most else, so here we go.

[Anita Renfroe singing “Big Ol’ Sweet Iced Tea”]

The history books do tell us
The orient was zealous
For the little leaf the floated in the cup.
The Dutch and English traded it,
Proceeded to blockade it
From the colonists addicted to the stuff.
Now, the high-class like to sip it,
But I prefer they zip it
When they brag about their green tea and their chai.
I ain’t sayin’ that they slow.
God bless them, they don’t know,
So let me be the first to testify.

Give me big ol’ sweet iced tea,
That refreshing sugar rush that means so much to me.
The amber colored tonic sets my heart at ease.
It might’ve started up in China,
But down in Carolina, it’s big ol’ sweet iced tea.

Now Rome has its …
Parisian paint is flaunt-y,
And you may prefer the taste of something fine.
Though the liquor may be quicker,
The fixture in our pitcher
Is delicious. It’s our Southern table wine.
We enjoy it on the porch
When we’re feeling hot and scorched.
We can serve it nearly anytime of day.
You can find it on the menu,
Nearly every site and venue.
You can get a gallon jug at Chick-fil-A
But not on Sunday. 

Give us big ol’ sweet iced tea,
That refreshing sugar rush that means so much to me.
The amber colored tonic sets my heart at ease.
If you plan to venture south,
You best prepare your mouth.
When you pour it over ice,
There’s nothing quite as nice.
If you’ve tested diabetic,
You just may need a medic.
My nose ain’t out of joint,
But if it ain’t sweet, what’s the point?
Give us big ol’ sweet iced tea.

 

Project Beautiful Sponsorship Message:

Mark: Dinner Conversations is presented by Project Beautiful

Andrew: A passionate community committed to saving innocent lives from the terrors of modern day slavery, Project Beautiful has intercepted over 12,000 vulnerable people from the frontlines of sex trafficking, and today, you can help. Your partnership pledge of $30 a month will help save three lives each year from entering a life of slavery through Project Beautiful’s sophisticated interception strategies, and if you sign up today, you will receive a special partnership package filled with exclusive show items straight from our table to your doorstep.

Mark: So will you partner with Andrew and me today to help bring the innocent home through Project Beautiful for just $30 a month? You can save three people a year. Bring them home. Go to projectbeautiful.org/dinnerconversations.

Andrew: If we don’t help, who will? Project Beautiful, because every life is beautiful and worth fighting for.

Mark: Ken, how did you get into comedy?

Ken: The doctor slapped me and said, “It’s a boy.”

Chonda: And that was it.

Ken: It’s been from the beginning. High school was not a good time for me. It’s interesting how we all have sort of a dark moment that leads us to do this stuff. I got beat up on a consistent basis in high school. I was a little skinny guy, about 110 pounds. I went to church. I have no athletic ability, hand-eye coordination of a carp kind of thing. That’s a fish.

Chonda: I know

Ken: With lips.

Chonda: I love the fish.

Ken: Humor, in the beginning, it was there naturally. I talk in one of the books that I wrote about you need to really mind your history to find out what God did from the very beginning, so in the beginning, I used it to keep from getting hurt. Laughter could keep people off of me.

Chonda: Yeah, it’s true.

Mark: Wow, isn’t that the truth.

Ken: And then, I used it to ingratiate myself with my classmates and stuff. Comedy gives us a chance to be real in front of people. Just doing joke after joke after joke to make people laugh is entertainment, and that’s fine, but it leaves having people go, “I wish I were them,” when in reality, people don’t wish they were us, but they wish they knew a God who could handle people like us. Someone defined humor this way: a gentle way to acknowledge human frailty. A way of saying, “I’m not OK, you’re not OK, but that’s OK.” And then to be able to say to the audience here’s why, so let’s sit back and laugh at ourselves. One of the greatest problems that we have in our society now is it’s a humorless society. Everybody’s offended by everything.

Andrew: Where is that balance, though? You guys are constantly bringing humor, bringing levity into situations, and we do have a culture that’s completely driven by fear, so we’ve driven ourselves into this extremely serious demeanor, everything is do-or-die, etc. You talk about growing up in an independent fundamental Baptist church. There’s probably a lot of literalists with the Bible, and so they may not see humor literally themed throughout Scripture or throughout the lives of people. So what is that balance? Obviously, it’s a driver for each of you. I would say in each of your works, you’ve used humor not to avoid reality but to actually address it.

Chonda: I don’t know. I probably used it at first to avoid. I was such the new kid on the block. I used to tell a story that I stood at the water fountain when I was a little girl, and two sweet saints of the church patted me on the head and said, “She’s not very P-R-E-T-T-Y.” And I said, “No, but I’m real S-M-A-R-T.” Now, the truth of the matter is that really did happen — they really did say, “She’s not very P-R-E-T-T-Y.” I didn’t say S-M-A-R-T. I wrote that part. I wrote that so that it would cushion the blow of that was a horrible thing for these two women to do, but it was kind of a funny story—

Mark: But it makes the story.

Chonda: It makes the story. But what’s really great is I quit telling it because I told it to jab back at those women. In my heart, whether nobody knew it or not, I knew my heart, and I knew I told it hoping someday they’re going to get this VHS and they’re going to hear that and they’re going to regret the day they ever said something like that.

Mark: Man, I tell stories and pray to God they never heard.

Chonda: I know, yeah. But my heart was not in a great place. Now, my heart has softened and seasoned and things have changed and now it’s different, but I’ve also gotten wiser about the use of comedy, and I’m very honest to tell people. Now, I’ll use that story sometimes and say here’s the truth of the matter. I didn’t say I’m S-M-A-R-T. What I did is run home to my mother and said, “I’ll never measure up. I’m not pretty.” And so I do it as a caution that our words are so powerful. They can make or break a child. They can make or break your psyche, and it takes years to let it go. Do you know to this very day, even the grieving of my husband, three years later, thinking about dating again and all that, if I’m not careful, the devil will use that P-R-E-T-T-Y whisper in my voice, and I have to go back to a counselor or I have to go back to Scripture or I have to go back to somebody and say, OK, wait a minute. That was in the past. I’ve got Cover Girl, so I’m good.


Andrew: Mark is sitting down and talking to Dr. Bryan Bell of Bell Psychiatric.

Bryan: When I think of our perceptions, I perceive people who are imperfect and I experience that in a threatening way because my mom and dad, though they loved me well, weren’t perfect. That’s how I’m wired. We all are wired in some different ways. God was creative. When I think of conditions like depression and anxiety and obsessive compulsive and bipolar and others, I think of the fight or flight mechanism. I’m feeling tension. I don’t know where it’s coming from, but it’s stirring my fight or flight. For touching a hot stove, that’s a good thing. I learn not to touch that stove. Even though I’ve not been burned by it, I can make associations and avoid it. But when it comes to people, when we operate under that kind of self-protective, avoid vulnerability, we violate the law of love. Suddenly, my self-protection and doing what makes me feel better, even if it’s at your expense, is what drives this fight or flight mechanism. It’s a self-protective one, which is fine around stoves, but around people, the same way of coping violates the relationship.

Mark: The community.

Bryan: Community.

Mark: But when is it good to flight? That’s not the right word, but sometimes relationships they’re toxic. I think when a wife is being beaten by her husband, would you say leave?

Bryan: Because that’s an un-loving aspect of the relationship, pretending that it’s OK to be beaten like that, like I have some kind of super human love when I don’t, fleeing that situation but not fleeing and never dealing with those feelings. As Christians, there are times where there are people who will not like us, who will desire our worst end, who will throw us into prison, beat us, crucify us. Those sorts of attributes, we want to honor God in them, but there are situations where it’s not honoring in that moment.


[Chonda Pierce, Stayin’ Alive…Laughing!]

Chonda: A lot of people say— I won’t say a lot of people. My shrink, actually, said that depression is anger turned inward. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that, but that’s what they say, which that really kind of made me mad. As medicine kicked in and does what we’re blessed that medicine can do, so, you know, diabetics take insulin so they can eat cake. Look at him: Yes, praise the Lord. And I don’t feel any different about anti-depressants. Now, don’t send me emails. I’ve gotten tons of them in the last few years that I’ve talked about this. I know that there’s a stigma within the Christian community that we’re not supposed to be medicating our brains. That could be what’s wrong with a lot of the Christian community. Let’s just be truthful for a moment. How arrogant of us to think that this organ is any more or less important than any other organ in our body. No, I think God is bigger than what’s just going on with the chemistry of my brain. So I praise the Lord for medicine. I love that God gives us tools, and one of the things I learned while I was in rehab is that there’s a lot of tools out there. So if someone ever shames you about the medicine that you’re taking or your hormones so that you don’t kill your husband, tell them to take their glasses off and drive home. We’ve got deacons frowning on us because we’re taking our anti-depressants, and they’ve got Viagra sneaking in their pocket.

Project Beautiful Sponsorship Message:

Andrew: Human trafficking is one of the most devastating inhumanities present in the world today. Millions of people are currently slaves, more than ever before in human history. We are on a mission to stop slavery, and you can help.

Mark: Dinner Conversations is now sponsored by Project Beautiful, which I love this organization, but I had not heard of them until you brought them to my attention. How did you hear about them?

Andrew: Our executive producer Celeste and I found out through a friend of ours here in Nashville about the organization, and, of course, human trafficking and the idea of modern day slavery is something that’s still fairly new to me as far as hearing about and not just hearing about it but then understanding that this is a relevant conversation in our world today, that at this moment in history, more people than ever are actually enslaved, which is mindboggling to me. I think of it from a textbook scenario, American history or pre Civil War, but in fact, through human trafficking rings, more people than ever are in slavery. You hear a lot of stories about people helping girls, women, boys, men, whoever, people who have already been in—

Mark: There are grown people involved in this.

Andrew: Adults, yeah, being trafficked. Well, what Celeste and I were initially so impressed by is that with Project Beautiful, they’re not being rescued after being trafficked; they’re being intercepted before they’re being trafficked. As they’re in the process, so as human traffickers are deceiving them and trying to—

Mark: And they catch them at the border. That would be kind of exciting. Tell them where to go.

Andrew: It’s an easy thing. Go to projectbeautiful.org/dinnerconversations. [https://www.projectbeautiful.org/dinnerconversations] That’s how you’ll find our partnership with Project Beautiful explicitly. You’ll be able to partner with us there, give. We’re going to give you a little something just as a thank you because of how much it means to us. We hope that Project Beautiful becomes a part of your own big picture spiritual conversation in your family.

Andrew: Compelled by the words of Jesus, Project Beautiful has intercepted over 12,000 lives from the frontlines of human trafficking. “Whatever you do to the least of these, you do for Me.” Will you help?

Mark: If we don’t help, who will? Project Beautiful, because every life is beautiful and worth fighting for.

Andrew: We don’t age graciously like we used to.

Chonda: We don’t, and I hate it.

Andrew: There used to be a respect to silver hair. I’m not talking just in the last 50, 60 years. I’m talking about historically, and what is that a sign of? What is that a sign of on our entire life?

Chonda: Vanity. We go get everything fixed.

Ken: I go to church and watch worship—

Chonda: Oh, dear Lord. Don’t get me started.

Ken: And the one thing that bothers me is that unless you’re cool and have it high and tight or a man bun or you’re young and cool—

Chonda: And a Jesus tattoo down your arm. You’ve got to have Scripture.

Ken: There’s nobody up there representing. And I’m not saying those things are wrong, but somewhere we’re still part of this. Young people who are sitting there unconsciously infer that when I reach a certain age, I’m not longer viable in God’s family.

Chonda: And that’s a shame.

Ken: I think that’s tragic.

Chonda: I think it is a real shame.

Andrew: You think young people perceive that?

Ken: I think young people unconsciously perceive that.

Chonda: Or project it. I think they project it, consciously or unconsciously.

Andrew: I have something to say to that because I’ve always had a great admiration for those older than me. Maybe I’m in the minority or whatever, but I would say this. I have experienced a lot of older generation who really do believe in the good ol’ days. They are not still living life. They have not continued to evolve as they age. My parents are 70-years-old, and they’re still vibrant, full of life, and they’re still interested in relating to the world around them. That’s not to say the have not been influenced by their time and place, but I have so many people, “Oh, the 80s was great. Reaganomics, that’s what we need to get back to.” They literally stick in a zone, and they stay there. We refuse to evolve.

Chonda: They won’t grow.

Andrew: So how do I as a 33-year-old look ahead to say I want to continue to evolve. I want to continue to be fully alive everyday. You guys have done that, I would say. I would look at each of your lives and I look at some of the circumstances I’ve read about, and we’re talking about some major loss, but I would say is that I’ve had some major loss, too, in different ways. Being able to connect that, that’s where we span the generations, right? But I’ve found it very easy sometimes to come up on older generations and they feel like I cannot relate to them at all, when I’m ready to relate. I’m ready to be right there and with them because here’s the thing.

Chonda: And they’re already defensive. They don’t even let you in.

Andrew: You may be stuck in Reagan’s era, but I was born in Reagan’s era. But here’s the thing I know is I know heartache, I know loss, I know that this life is not holding all that I’m looking for, so that’s where our basic relationship is, right? So how do we do that in the multi-generational scenarios where I have this taste and you may have this taste or maybe we have some overlapping tastes, but the common denominator is still there.

Mark: All go to camp together. The seniors and the kids. Everybody go to camp together like the old days, like when we were kids, and make the old people come to.

Chonda: Family camp. I will say, I’ve always thought this, comedy can be very subjective. What I think is hysterically funny, my son thinks is stupid. He loves Monty Python. I am not a big fan. He loves Three Stooges. To me, it looked like three men beating each other up. It just was stupid to me. I never got it. Comedy is subjective. What is not subjective in our lives and the no. 1 common thing we all have is pain.

Pain is the most common ground that a human being can have. Your pain may have come along in a different way. You lost a mother; I lost a father. You lost a spouse; I lost a brother. But pain is universal, and when we can remember that — to your audience, to your neighbor, to anybody — that irregardless of our political opinions, the eras that we’re stuck in, someone in pain, I can relate to that. They may not think I’m that funny, but they might go, “Wow, I lost a sister, too. I get what she’s saying here.” When we are not willing to share our story, our real story, the deep down inside story, we have neglected a huge area of ministry. I think it’s the same way with I don’t like platitudes. I don’t like the signs on the sides of churches that say, “To blessed to be depressed.” I run them over. That’s why I drive a big pickup truck. I don’t like pat verses. Well, you know, God works all things for good. Yes, but don’t tell me that right now. My husband just died yesterday. In other words, what you need to be allowed is to talk about your pain and sit with each other in your pain, not just in the worship and the shouts to the Lord and not just in the comedy and what we have in common ground, laughing about our Spanx and our mascara. Let’s find this common ground that is so tender and universal, and that is our pain.

Andrew: I would say that’s even a spiritual connector. We so often see grief as a negative thing, yet it has been in many of our lives and, in the communal sense, it’s a very connective, positive thing. I even think of this translation of the Bible that I really love — I talk about it all the time — called The Voice, and we’ve talked about this before, where it says Jesus is man of sorrows, it translates it as grief’s patient friend. So in my spiritual relationship, in my relationship with God and trying to understand how to relate to him and who Jesus was as my direct relationship to him, I’ve held on to that reality that, in fact, maybe he’s not only acquainted with grief but he’s actually OK with it.

Chonda: Oh yeah. It is the catalyst. It was the promise in the Word.

Mark: Something’s wrong with me because I just don’t grieve that much.

Chonda: You’ve got really great medication.

Mark: When momma died, I grieved for three years before she died. Man, she’s kicking up gold dust; I’m talking to you yazoos. I say let her grieve. I really believe that when you leave this life, you go to a better place. What’s the grieving for?

Chonda: But yet, have you ever lost someone— Your mom she lived a long life. She was in a nursing home.

Mark: No, I’ve never lost any young person.

Chonda: Say that when you’re sitting watching your 15-year-old little sister die.

Mark: I agree. I understand that.

Chonda: Then that’s a lot of grief of going her life just got stolen from her. She just got stolen from me. You haven’t had that yet, and maybe you never will. There’s a lot of people that go through life that don’t have to.

Mark: But I don’t want anybody grieving for me. When I’m gone, know this. When I’m gone, I don’t want to come back.

Chonda: But you’ve had pain. You’ve had disappointments. Life has had twists and turns that you wish would be different. We all have.

Andrew: Isn’t grief that natural pathway to healing?

Chonda: Well, you have to walk through it.

Andrew: Right, you don’t sit in it. You don’t stay in it.

Ken: You don’t get over it, in the sense of people saying, “Get over it.”

Chonda: You press forward.

Ken: I find perhaps the greatest grief is not losing someone but the realization of my own adequacies, my own fears. I look back on my life and career, and I know this isn’t popular — it’s not popular to say this — but there are times I wish if I could’ve done it over again. Raising my children, if I could’ve done it over again. Facing some of my own weaknesses.

Mark: What would you have done different?

Ken: I wouldn’t have caved to my weaknesses. I would have spent more time with my children. I spent most of my life building this career.

Chonda: Yes, I know.

Ken: I was building this career, and there were two little girls that were in my home. I did everything— Let me change that. They did everything with me. I did very little with them. Part of what we do is so egocentric, so it’s easy to be blinded to the people around you.

Andrew: What do you do with regret?

Ken: Here’s what I do, and maybe this is what leads to the truth of what you’re talking about, that grief is the natural path to healing. If you don’t grieve those things about yourself that aren’t and weren’t right, then you never come to the place where in tears and gratefulness you stand before the Father and hear him say, “I know, and I loved you anyway. And I’m bigger than what you’re going to leave behind.”


Ken: When I opened by eyes, she wasn’t hanging on to my finger anymore; she was hanging on to my arm. She was all dressed in white from the top of her toes, all the way. If you’re all dressed in white from the top of your toes, you’re naked. It was her wedding day. All of our friends were in the church. The organ was playing. There was a little pervert waiting for her in the front of the room. Look at these women going, “Oh, that’s a bad word. Geesh.” But all the men are going, “No, you go the word.” Made it all the way to the front with the preacher where she had me so messed up. The preacher was way formal. I’m not formal. This dude was over the top. He goes, “Who, who, whooo, who giveth this woman to this man?” And I was so freaked out I went, “My mother and I.”


Chonda: And the God of the universe that is here now was there then. That’s what I’ve had to learn. If we truly choose to believe He is who He says He was, He was still who He is when I was raising my children and I was gone too much, and as a mother, you carry that guilt with you. As a wife, and if I had known I was only going to have 31 years with David, would I have been a different wife? You better believe it. If I had known I was going to have 31 years with him, would I have been more attentive? I would’ve worked less. I would’ve baked more of his favorite pie. But I didn’t know that, and so I spend some time grieving that, I give it to the Lord, and then sometimes I take it back and I know I have to give it back to the Lord. It’s that grief. Sometimes I’m angry. Was there no one in my life that was trying to wake me up and tell me, “You should be home more with your kids.” No, there were a lot of people going, “Get out there and get while the getting’s good,” managers and agents. I just went through a real angry period. You’re right. You go through those stages of grief, but then there comes a time when you have to say, “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.” And then you get up and go the next day


Andrew: Big thanks to our guests today, Ken Davis and Chonda Pierce, for keeping us laughing. We want to thank our friends the Breen Family for opening their home to host this podcast, Quentin Philips for his expertise, Dana Claremont for all her assistance, and our show is recorded by Center Street Recording Studios in Nashville, Tenn. [link to: http://centerstreetrecording.com]

Mark: Our executive producer for Dinner Conversations is Celeste Winstead. Our show is co-produced by Andrew Greer and myself. Andrew is also our director. Our assistant director and editor is Chris Cameron. Tristan Swang is our director of photography. Britt Edwards is our sound engineer. And the theme song was played by Britt Edwards, Chris Cameron, Andrew Greer, and Ron Block. Thank you for listening to Dinner Conversations.

Andrew: Turning the light on one question at a time

Mark: Presented by Project Beautiful.

Andrew: Join us next time for more conversation around the table, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss one single episode. While you’re at, rate and review our show. It’s an easy way that you can help us continue the conversation. Dinner Conversations is a production of Center Street Media.


Season One title sponsor, Project Beautiful … a passionate community committed to saving lives from the terrors of human trafficking. Learn more about how you can partner with Mark, Andrew and Project Beautiful to help bring innocent lives home by visiting:

Project Beautiful: https://www.projectbeautiful.org/dinnerconversations


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